This morning on social media, I saw someone post a link to a guy’s story about getting arrested and “red flagged” on Reddit. The person who posted the link was accusing the cops of making a mess of this situation, so I jumped over to Reddit and read the anonymous, first hand account of what happened.
Before I begin to discuss it, I encourage you to read his account of the incident as well, which I have included here.
Additionally, due to the litigious nature of our society, I must also include this disclaimer: Information provided in this article is not legal advice and should not be construed as such. It is merely my personal opinion based on my career as a cop and as a lifelong gun owner.
Got Arrested and Red Flagged
From Reddit post: https://www.reddit.com/r/CAguns/comments/k1hot4/got_arrested_and_red_flagged/
Throwaway because of personal information. There’s a recording of everything, I’ll post it after my attorney lets me.
I was in my business in the back, a restricted area, and two individuals entered it. I explained this area is not for customers and asked them to head back into the office.
One of them complied. The other refused, asked me who I was. I got agitated, and asked who HE was, he stated he’s a customer. I informed him I don’t care, and to get out. He refused and got right in my face. At this point, I repeatedly told him I didn’t need his Business and he needs to leave the property. He nudged me in the stomach after getting closer and closer, all while screaming and yelling. I was afraid for my life. So I had to draw my weapon. He immediately left and the threat was diminished. He then called the cops.
The cops deployed a swat team and arrested me. They were asking me all kinds of questions. I didn’t answer any of their questions, except one short statement. I was Mirandized and refused to answer any questions without a lawyer present.
The cops first tried to tell me California isn’t an open carry state, then figured out I was inside my building on private property. Then they sat in the car googling 17rd magazines. Then they started googling “can I kill someone if they don’t leave California castle doctrine.” All while I’m handcuffed in the back of the car.
The complaining party informed the cops he doesn’t want to press charges. But cops didn’t like I didn’t talk to them and I was being a “smart ass who knows everything.” Just because I’m not stupid enough to answer questions while handcuffed.
After hours of googling, and cops calling different people to see what they could do, I was arrested for multiple felonies, that did not include any magazine charges.
The complaining party allegedly told the cops that I pointed the gun at him, I didn’t. He told them I said “I’m going to shoot you in the head,” I didn’t.
The best part is I have audio and video recording of the entire incident. So I can’t wait to present it at my red flag hearing which will be set within 21 days. Now I have to find a FFL that’s open on thanksgiving to sell or store my firearms. Or turn them in to the local PD.
Stay frosty my friends.
First, we should discuss the encounter in his business. In California, it is legal to be armed on your own property, with or without a concealed weapon permit, and this also includes your business. From his description of the encounter, assuming that what he wrote is factually accurate, I can see no laws this guy violated or errors in the way he handled himself with the confrontational customer. In fact, I probably would have taken nearly the same exact actions.
I can only find two things I would have done differently, which I feel were mistakes on his part.
First Mistake
First, I would have called the cops myself after an encounter like that, and so should you. Anytime you pull a weapon during an encounter, you should absolutely be notifying law enforcement.
In this incident, him calling the cops would have likely negated the use of the “swat team,” if they truly were called out for this. From my experience at my former agency, SWAT would not respond for something this benign. If the SWAT team did, in fact, get called out then we are missing some rather large parts of the story.
Second Mistake
Second, after being contacted by the cops, I would have told the cops my version of the incident. This right here is the part that most pro-gun people who are distrustful of the cops are going to balk at.
But this is also the action, or more accurately lack thereof, that caused this individual to get arrested.
Let me explain why I say that.
When the cops get a call from someone about an alleged crime, they start out with only an abbreviated version of the incident, and most times from only one perspective.
We (the cops) arrive and contact all the involved parties. We talk to the people involved and any available witnesses, and attempt to gather all versions of the incident. There is a saying I used to use in patrol often when people would ask why we were talking to both involved parties. “There are three sides to every story, yours, theirs, and the truth which is usually somewhere in the middle.”
As the cop on the scene, if I have one guy telling me that the other guy pulled a gun, pointed it at his head and threatened to kill him, I am going to take that pretty damn seriously as there are multiple crimes being alleged.
As the cop, if the other guy is refusing to talk to me at all, other than to say he is refusing to talk to me, then I do not have both sides of the story, and therefore I do not have a full picture of what occurred. Especially if this involved party has access to store surveillance video which would corroborate his side of the story, but he does not tell me about it.
Side note: surveillance video generally holds more weight than either involved person’s story because video is impartial.
So, as the cop on the scene, if the only version of the incident that I have is one in which some guy in some business pulled a gun, pointed it at the “victim” and threatened to kill him, you can bet your ass the guy with the gun is getting arrested.
As for why the cops were researching any and all potential violations they could charge, the answer to that is because when an arrest is being made, it is our job to charge all applicable violations. Simple as that.
Not All Advice is Good Advice
Far too many people listen to those TV and radio ads from sleazebag attorneys who tell you to never talk to the cops. If you have done nothing wrong, that is really bad advice. Those attorneys do not have your best interest at heart. They are there to make money, and unless people are getting arrested, they do not have any cases to argue and thus no income.
In this case, if his account is accurate, heeding that poor advice is what got this guy (or gal) arrested.
As far as the “I got red flagged” portion of the story, technically he was not in fact red flagged, at least not yet. He talks about potential upcoming court hearing for the red flag. It has not happened yet. And again, had he told his side of the story, had he showed the cops the surveillance video, assuming his version is accurate, he would not only have avoided the arrest, he would have avoided any potential for getting red flagged.*
- Please note, I absolutely detest red flag laws and have written about why I hate them right here many times in the past.
